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simple_language@yahoo.com
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 Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: Archbishop of Canterbury: 'Christian doctrine is offensive t |
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source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1035420/Why-Christian-doctrine-offensive-Muslims-Archbishop.html
Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of
Canterbury said yesterday.
Dr Rowan Williams also criticised Christianity's history for its
violence, its use of harsh punishments and its betrayal of its
peaceful principles.
His comments came in a highly conciliatory letter to Islamic leaders
calling for an alliance between the two faiths for 'the common good'.
The Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams has admitted that
Christian doctrine is offensive to muslims
But it risked fresh controversy for the Archbishop in the wake of his
pronouncement earlier this year that a place should be found for
Islamic sharia law in the British legal system.
Dr Williams is also facing immense pressures from inside his own
Church of England and Anglican Communion.
A gathering of Anglican bishops from around the world, which begins
today, is on the brink of a devastating split over whether
homosexuality and gay clergy should win their approval.
The Archbishop's letter is a reply to feelers to Christians put out by
Islamic leaders from 43 countries last autumn.
In it, Dr Williams said violence is incompatible with the beliefs of
either faith and that, once that principle is accepted, both can work
together against poverty and prejudice and to help the environment.
He also said the Christian belief in the Trinity - that God is Father,
Son and Holy Ghost at the same time - 'is difficult, sometimes
offensive, to Muslims'.
Trinitarian doctrine conflicts with the Islamic view that there is
just one all-powerful God.
Dr Williams added: 'It is all the more important for the sake of open
and careful dialogue that we try to clarify what we do and do not mean
by it, and so I trust that what follows will be read in this spirit.'
He told Muslim leaders that faith has no connection with political
power or force, and that Christians have in the past betrayed this
idea.
'Christianity has been promoted at the point of the sword and legally
supported by extreme sanctions,' Dr Williams said.
Islam, he continued, has been supported in the same way and 'there is
no religious tradition whose history is exempt from such temptation
and such failure.'
The Archbishop appeared to rebuke his colleague, Bishop of Rochester
Dr Michael Nazir-Ali, who criticised his sharia lecture and who
maintains that Christianity is central to British law, politics and
society.
'Religious identity has often been confused with cultural or national
integrity, with structures of social control, with class and regional
identities, with empire: and it has been imposed in the interest of
all these and other forms of power,' he said.
The Archbishop said that faiths which reject the use of violence
should learn to defend each other in their mutual interest.
'If we are in the habit of defending each other, we ought to be able
to learn to defend other groups and communities as well,' he said.
'We can together speak for those who have no voice or leverage in
society - for the poorest, the most despised, the least powerful, for
women and children, for migrants and minorities; and even to speak
together for the great encompassing reality that has no voice of its
own, our injured and abused material environment.'
The Archbishop did not mention sharia at all in his closely-argued 18-
page letter. Dr Williams was heavily criticised by MPs and Downing
Street after he suggested sharia law could have an established place
in British life.
But his letter in reply to last year's Islamic approach, A Common Word
for the Common Good, chimes with his view expressed in February that
people of faith should be able to work together against secularism
despite their differences.
Lambeth Palace hinted that Christians as well as Muslims should listen
to Dr Williams' message.
Officials pointed to the Archbishop's call for 'religious plurality'
to turn to serving the common good and added: 'This is true even where
truth claims may seem irreconcilable'.
A number of conservative and evangelical Anglican bishops are poised
to break away from the 400-year-old network of Anglican churches
around the world because they believe homosexual behaviour is
incompatible with Christian principles.
Among those expected to boycott the Lambeth Conference in Canterbury
is Dr Nazir-Ali, whose seat in Rochester is just 20 miles away. |
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djornsk
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Archbishop of Canterbury: 'Christian doctrine is offensi |
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On 16 Jul, 06:50, "simple_langu...@yahoo.com"
<simple_langu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
source:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1035420/Why-Christian-doctrin...
Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of
Canterbury said yesterday.
Dr Rowan Williams also criticised Christianity's history for its
violence, its use of harsh punishments and its betrayal of its
peaceful principles.
His comments came in a highly conciliatory letter to Islamic leaders
calling for an alliance between the two faiths for 'the common good'.
The Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams has admitted that
Christian doctrine is offensive to muslims
But it risked fresh controversy for the Archbishop in the wake of his
pronouncement earlier this year that a place should be found for
Islamic sharia law in the British legal system.
Dr Williams is also facing immense pressures from inside his own
Church of England and Anglican Communion.
A gathering of Anglican bishops from around the world, which begins
today, is on the brink of a devastating split over whether
homosexuality and gay clergy should win their approval.
The Archbishop's letter is a reply to feelers to Christians put out by
Islamic leaders from 43 countries last autumn.
In it, Dr Williams said violence is incompatible with the beliefs of
either faith and that, once that principle is accepted, both can work
together against poverty and prejudice and to help the environment.
He also said the Christian belief in the Trinity - that God is Father,
Son and Holy Ghost at the same time - 'is difficult, sometimes
offensive, to Muslims'.
Trinitarian doctrine conflicts with the Islamic view that there is
just one all-powerful God.
Dr Williams added: 'It is all the more important for the sake of open
and careful dialogue that we try to clarify what we do and do not mean
by it, and so I trust that what follows will be read in this spirit.'
He told Muslim leaders that faith has no connection with political
power or force, and that Christians have in the past betrayed this
idea.
'Christianity has been promoted at the point of the sword and legally
supported by extreme sanctions,' Dr Williams said.
Islam, he continued, has been supported in the same way and 'there is
no religious tradition whose history is exempt from such temptation
and such failure.'
The Archbishop appeared to rebuke his colleague, Bishop of Rochester
Dr Michael Nazir-Ali, who criticised his sharia lecture and who
maintains that Christianity is central to British law, politics and
society.
'Religious identity has often been confused with cultural or national
integrity, with structures of social control, with class and regional
identities, with empire: and it has been imposed in the interest of
all these and other forms of power,' he said.
The Archbishop said that faiths which reject the use of violence
should learn to defend each other in their mutual interest.
'If we are in the habit of defending each other, we ought to be able
to learn to defend other groups and communities as well,' he said.
'We can together speak for those who have no voice or leverage in
society - for the poorest, the most despised, the least powerful, for
women and children, for migrants and minorities; and even to speak
together for the great encompassing reality that has no voice of its
own, our injured and abused material environment.'
The Archbishop did not mention sharia at all in his closely-argued 18-
page letter. Dr Williams was heavily criticised by MPs and Downing
Street after he suggested sharia law could have an established place
in British life.
But his letter in reply to last year's Islamic approach, A Common Word
for the Common Good, chimes with his view expressed in February that
people of faith should be able to work together against secularism
despite their differences.
Lambeth Palace hinted that Christians as well as Muslims should listen
to Dr Williams' message.
Officials pointed to the Archbishop's call for 'religious plurality'
to turn to serving the common good and added: 'This is true even where
truth claims may seem irreconcilable'.
A number of conservative and evangelical Anglican bishops are poised
to break away from the 400-year-old network of Anglican churches
around the world because they believe homosexual behaviour is
incompatible with Christian principles.
Among those expected to boycott the Lambeth Conference in Canterbury
is Dr Nazir-Ali, whose seat in Rochester is just 20 miles away.
|
Doesn't this whiff of collusive oligopoly, an implicit acceptance that
major faiths are somehow equal and the leaders might get their heads
together and divide up the religious marketplace?
Insofar as individuals are guided by them common principles held by
muslims and christians may well complement each other in their
influence on the world, but that is not the same thing.
"Offensive" is becoming a much overused word.
j |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Archbishop of Canterbury: 'Christian doctrine is offensi |
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|
On 16 Jul, 00:14, djornsk <djor...@googlemail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On 16 Jul, 06:50, "simple_langu...@yahoo.com"
simple_langu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
source:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1035420/Why-Christian-doctrin...
Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of
Canterbury said yesterday.
Dr Rowan Williams also criticised Christianity's history for its
violence, its use of harsh punishments and its betrayal of its
peaceful principles.
His comments came in a highly conciliatory letter to Islamic leaders
calling for an alliance between the two faiths for 'the common good'.
The Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams has admitted that
Christian doctrine is offensive to muslims
But it risked fresh controversy for the Archbishop in the wake of his
pronouncement earlier this year that a place should be found for
Islamic sharia law in the British legal system.
Dr Williams is also facing immense pressures from inside his own
Church of England and Anglican Communion.
A gathering of Anglican bishops from around the world, which begins
today, is on the brink of a devastating split over whether
homosexuality and gay clergy should win their approval.
The Archbishop's letter is a reply to feelers to Christians put out by
Islamic leaders from 43 countries last autumn.
In it, Dr Williams said violence is incompatible with the beliefs of
either faith and that, once that principle is accepted, both can work
together against poverty and prejudice and to help the environment.
He also said the Christian belief in the Trinity - that God is Father,
Son and Holy Ghost at the same time - 'is difficult, sometimes
offensive, to Muslims'.
Trinitarian doctrine conflicts with the Islamic view that there is
just one all-powerful God.
Dr Williams added: 'It is all the more important for the sake of open
and careful dialogue that we try to clarify what we do and do not mean
by it, and so I trust that what follows will be read in this spirit.'
He told Muslim leaders that faith has no connection with political
power or force, and that Christians have in the past betrayed this
idea.
'Christianity has been promoted at the point of the sword and legally
supported by extreme sanctions,' Dr Williams said.
Islam, he continued, has been supported in the same way and 'there is
no religious tradition whose history is exempt from such temptation
and such failure.'
The Archbishop appeared to rebuke his colleague, Bishop of Rochester
Dr Michael Nazir-Ali, who criticised his sharia lecture and who
maintains that Christianity is central to British law, politics and
society.
'Religious identity has often been confused with cultural or national
integrity, with structures of social control, with class and regional
identities, with empire: and it has been imposed in the interest of
all these and other forms of power,' he said.
The Archbishop said that faiths which reject the use of violence
should learn to defend each other in their mutual interest.
'If we are in the habit of defending each other, we ought to be able
to learn to defend other groups and communities as well,' he said.
'We can together speak for those who have no voice or leverage in
society - for the poorest, the most despised, the least powerful, for
women and children, for migrants and minorities; and even to speak
together for the great encompassing reality that has no voice of its
own, our injured and abused material environment.'
The Archbishop did not mention sharia at all in his closely-argued 18-
page letter. Dr Williams was heavily criticised by MPs and Downing
Street after he suggested sharia law could have an established place
in British life.
But his letter in reply to last year's Islamic approach, A Common Word
for the Common Good, chimes with his view expressed in February that
people of faith should be able to work together against secularism
despite their differences.
Lambeth Palace hinted that Christians as well as Muslims should listen
to Dr Williams' message.
Officials pointed to the Archbishop's call for 'religious plurality'
to turn to serving the common good and added: 'This is true even where
truth claims may seem irreconcilable'.
A number of conservative and evangelical Anglican bishops are poised
to break away from the 400-year-old network of Anglican churches
around the world because they believe homosexual behaviour is
incompatible with Christian principles.
Among those expected to boycott the Lambeth Conference in Canterbury
is Dr Nazir-Ali, whose seat in Rochester is just �20 miles away..
Doesn't this whiff of collusive oligopoly, an implicit acceptance that
major faiths are somehow equal and the leaders might get their heads
together and divide up the religious marketplace?
Insofar as individuals are guided by them common principles held by
muslims and christians may well complement each other in their
influence on the world, but that is not the same thing.
"Offensive" is becoming a much overused word.
j- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
|
I'm offended by an Archbishop who is not a Christian. |
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Dr Quite
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Archbishop of Canterbury: 'Christian doctrine is offensi |
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"Blue" <blue@there.com> wrote in message
news:6e5kfuF5f8rmU1@mid.individual.net...
Certainly he might be happier as a muslim. He's weak and cowardly and has no
sense of humour, so the strength and seriousness of islam probably appeals.
The nineteenth century C of E was much more self-confident - "onward
christian soldiers" and all that. |
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David Moss
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Archbishop of Canterbury: 'Christian doctrine is offensi |
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"simple_language@yahoo.com" <simple_language@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:17ef9656-fa3d-475c-82a1-718663b52beb@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
| Quote: |
Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of
Canterbury said yesterday.
|
Is he trying out for world champion stater of the bleeding obvious or what?
Whatch out Simple, he may start spamming this sort of drivel into
aus.politics himself and put you out of a job ;-)
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com |
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Blue
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Archbishop of Canterbury: 'Christian doctrine is offensi |
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simple_language@yahoo.com wrote:
Rampant appeasment.
He should become a muslim and shut up. |
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Duncan Patton
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Archbishop of Canterbury: 'Christian doctrine is offensi |
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:54:24 +1000
fasgnadh <fasgnadh@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Duncan Patton wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 00:14:29 -0700 (PDT)
djornsk <djornsk@googlemail.com> wrote:
On 16 Jul, 06:50, "simple_langu...@yahoo.com"
simple_langu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
source:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1035420/Why-Christian-doctrin...
The Archbishop's letter is a reply to feelers to Christians put out by
Islamic leaders from 43 countries last autumn.
In it, Dr Williams said violence is incompatible with the beliefs of
either faith and that, once that principle is accepted, both can work
together against poverty and prejudice and to help the environment.
Insofar as individuals are guided by them common principles held by
muslims and christians may well complement each other in their
influence on the world
Indeed they may!
Shalom and Salaam.
I am offended by assholes with four wives,
So you hate People from Utah...
|
You equate "offended" with hate? You must hate a lot, asshole ;-)
| Quote: |
dozens of concubines
...and people from Hollywood
|
Greedy toads.
| Quote: |
and scores of sons they haven't got the time of day for.
...and Tony Abbott...
|
Scores? Do you know what that means?
Dhu |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Archbishop of Canterbury: 'Christian doctrine is offensi |
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|
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:12:09 -0400, itsall_bull <itsall_bull@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
God is very angry with the Islamics. He is refusing their prayers and not
returning their calls. That's because the God is Jewish and plans on wiping
out all who refuse to convert to Judiasm before the end of days.
|
Yippeee for the Judaics.
Roses are reddish
Violets are blueish
If it weren't for Christmas
We'd all be Jewish.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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fasgnadh
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Archbishop of Canterbury: 'Christian doctrine is offensi |
|
|
Duncan Patton wrote:
| Quote: |
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:54:24 +1000
fasgnadh <fasgnadh@yahoo.com> wrote:
Duncan Patton wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 00:14:29 -0700 (PDT)
djornsk <djornsk@googlemail.com> wrote:
On 16 Jul, 06:50, "simple_langu...@yahoo.com"
simple_langu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
source:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1035420/Why-Christian-doctrin...
The Archbishop's letter is a reply to feelers to Christians put out by
Islamic leaders from 43 countries last autumn.
In it, Dr Williams said violence is incompatible with the beliefs of
either faith and that, once that principle is accepted, both can work
together against poverty and prejudice and to help the environment.
Insofar as individuals are guided by them common principles held by
muslims and christians may well complement each other in their
influence on the world
Indeed they may!
Shalom and Salaam.
I am offended by assholes with four wives,
So you hate People from Utah...
You equate "offended" with hate?
|
When you call them 'assholes' it would seem I have a case... B^)
You, on the other hand, are one.
| Quote: |
You must hate a lot,
|
No, you have amused, not offended, me. B^)
no thanks, you seem to well reamed though,
many must take up your offer!
| Quote: |
dozens of concubines
...and people from Hollywood
Greedy toads.
and scores of sons they haven't got the time of day for.
...and Tony Abbott...
Scores? Do you know what that means?
|
Yes. You:0 Me:3 ;-)
You seem to have misspelled Duh!, Homer.
---------
One Planet - One People
There is only ONE 'race', the Human Race:
"THE GENOGRAPHIC PROJECT, A LANDMARK FIVE-YEAR STUDY
CONDUCTED BY IBM AND NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC EXPLORES
THE ROOTS OF HUMANITY
In the space of just a few thousand generations,
the linguistic, cultural and genetic diversity
of the human race has exploded. Scientists agree
that all humans share a common ancestry in Africa.
Much less well understood is how the human race
migrated out of Africa and became so diverse."
www.ibm.com/dna
http://tinyurl.com/29qlqv
---------
The true-blue Homestead;
http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
----------- |
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fasgnadh
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Archbishop of Canterbury: 'Christian doctrine on the tri |
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abelard wrote:
| Quote: |
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:00:44 +1000, fasgnadh <fasgnadh@yahoo.com
wrote:
Duncan Patton wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:50:33 -0700 (PDT)
"simple_language@yahoo.com" <simple_language@yahoo.com> wrote:
Trinitarian doctrine conflicts with the Islamic view that there is
just one all-powerful God.
this is probably a semantic problem....
http://www.abelard.org/abelard/abelard2.htm#trinity-counting-problem
|
As it's your website it undoubtedly has semantic problems.
Are you still walking into trees?
Trust someone who thinks tree's don't exist to also think
Trinity requires counting! BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAAA!
| Quote: |
It conflicts with Judaism and Christianity (the teachings of Jesus)
as well:
"Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad."
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God! The LORD is One!"
"Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me"
(Isaiah 43:10).
There are also a lot of Muslims who come here to get the hell away
from Sharia, which is the Islamic equivalent of Papal Bull.
Yes, centuries of rule by self-serving clerics has
polluted the teachings in every religion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yrFp0W6g_c
|
---------
Teaching abelard about the existence of trees:
# "From: abelard <abela...@abelard.org>
# Subject: Re: Early scratching - Abelard, failed to start! B^D
# Re: The Great Race - an open challenge to Racists
#Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 15:25:07 +0200
# Message-ID: <suaq44h48nb5fbj03vl6417svjfd5u2...@4ax.com>
#
#
# On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:37:51 +1000, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com>
# wrote:
#
# >abelard wrote:
#
# >> there is no such thing as a tree....
# >
# >Here is just ONE of many hundreds of trees contained in the detailed
# >scientific taxonomy of plant species.
# ..
#
# >http://www.tolweb.org/Pinaceae/21624
# >
# >"Pine trees and their relatives
#
# >It's Containing group is: Conifer
# >
# >Here is the Subgenus: Pinus showing the distinct
# >characteristics which make it UNIQUELY DIFFERENT from
# >other trees!
# >
# >http://www.tolweb.org/Pinus/21626
# >
# >Would you like the Phylum?
# >
# >You would probably stick it up your arse, you sub-hominid imbecile!
#
# you will find references to pinus here
# http://www.abelard.org/briefings/taxonomy.htm
# dated 2003...you'll even find a photo!
" there is no such thing as a tree." - the gelded chimp! B^D
Poke him with a stick and he remembers ..tree's DO EXIST!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAAAA! |
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